Chahat and Mahmood Ali: ‘Qawwali helps audiences connect to a higher power’
Eastern Eye spoke to the fabulously talented father and son to discuss their fascinating journey, qawwali music, free London show, future hopes, and their music heroes
By Asjad NazirAug 02, 2023
WHETHER it is Rahat Fateh Ali Khan selling out big arenas, iconic festivals like Womad featuring qawwali concerts or compositions from major names like AR Rahman, Sufi music has been red hot in recent years.
The next big breakout act in the devotional genre, rooted in over 700 years of tradition, is Chahat Mahmood Ali qawwal group. The supremely talented group from Pakistan recently arrived in the UK for a six month tour. The world-class nine-man act led by Chahat and Mahmood Ali will deliver their first major London show in Newham at Stratford Youth Zone, as part of South Asian Heritage Month on August 18.
Eastern Eye caught up with the fabulously talented father and son to discuss their fascinating journey, qawwali music, free London show, future hopes, and their music heroes.
How do you reflect on your journey?
Mahmood: This journey has been a blessing. I have worked with great artists, including Ustad Rahat Fateh Ali Khan, for 11 years, and Faiz Ali Faiz for five years. I have travelled to the UK, Europe, Japan, Morocco, Singapore, India and the US.
What has been your most memorable moment so far?
Mahmood: In 1999 till 2002, I joined Rahat Fateh Ali Khan’s qawwali team with a majority of (late) Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan group’s members. it was an honour to be on the second harmonium, while the late Ustad Farrukh Fateh Ali Khan (Rahat’s father) was on the first harmonium.
When did you discover your son had incredible talent?
Mahmood: Chahat was six years old when he started humming. I used to take him to concerts with Rahat saab and he would join in vocally.
Mahmood Ali with his son Chahat and other group members
What connected you to qawwali music?
Chahat: My forefathers have been in the singing profession for many generations. They had migrated from Jalandhar, India. I was surrounded by relations, who were active singers from Faisalabad, from day one. My uncle Haji Babar Hussain was a father-figure, and a member of Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan’s qawwali team. Nusrat saab hailed from our city Faisalabad and inspired me to pursue qawwali.
How do you feel being in a qawwali group with your father?
Chahat: My father is an experienced and exceptional artist, who has worked with many renowned qawwali groups, so being on my first UK tour with him is inspiring. He is a guide, mentor and someone who brings out the best in me daily. My younger brother Tameer Abbas is also with us - he plays tabla and is a versatile chorus singer.
What do you most love about your father as an artist?
Chahat: I love the way my father plays the lead harmonium. His vocals are amazing. He has a high pitch and very few can hit notes in qawwali like he does.
Tell us about your group?
Mahmood: The group is put together by our promoter Abid Iqbal. My son and I are blessed to have a great group of experienced artists backing us, who have played with lead qawwals like Rahat Fateh Ali Khan and Faiz Ali Faiz for prolonged periods. We have world-class artists Shahid Nadeem, Mohammed Nasir, Mohammed Kashif, Sarfraz Hussain, Sabir Hussain, Tameer Abbas, and Mohammed Rameez.
How do you feel performing shows in the UK?
Mahmood: I have always worked with sayarts.com, who are well connected promoters of qawwali. In the past, it was me as a musician, but now there is more responsibility as both me and Chahat are leading the group.
Chahat: UK helped put qawwali on the international map, so is very important. Some major artists have made a real name for themselves, thanks to the UK, which has a diverse mix of audiences, who value artists. Emerging artists do not get the same appreciation in Pakistan. If you have talent, then UK will push you higher.
What can we expect from your free concert in Newham on August 18?
Mahmood: You will get an energetic live performance of non-stop popular qawwali numbers, like Allah Hu, Tu Khuja Man Khuja, Mere Rashke Qamar, Bol Kaffara, Nit Khair Manga, Tumhey Dillagi, Mast Nazron Sey, Akhiyaan Udeek Diya, and Dam Mast Qalandar.
You are performing in London as part of South Asian Heritage Month. How important is your history to you?
Chahat: It’s very important and it is exactly why I want to connect young people to their roots, through my qawwali performances. Qawwali has connected people to their heritage for centuries and I want to continue flying that flag in a positive way. Mahmood: We are thankful to the honourable mayor Ms Rokhsana Fiaz for organising an event like this. We should all keep connected to our history, heritage, and roots. It is our duty to preserve our roots and why I have passed on what I’ve learned to my children. This has prevented a 700 year old genre from being wiped out.
Chahat Ali with Ustad Rahat Fateh Ali Khan (L)
Tell us about the strong connection you have to Rahat Fateh Ali Khan and his father?
Chahat: My father was a student of the late Farrukh Fateh Ali Khan (Rahat’s father), learning harmonium and qawwali singing from him. He was also part of Rahat saab’s qawwali group as a harmonium player for 11 years (1999-2010). I officially became Rahat saab’s student during his UK tour in July 2023.
Why do you think people love Sufi and qawwali music?
Chahat: Qawwali and Sufi music take audiences on a journey and help connect them to a higher power. It makes you feel something, even if you can’t fully understand the lyrics. It can purify your heart and has lyrics written by some of the greatest saints. It has a message of togetherness, peace, love and understanding.
What inspires you as an artist?
Mahmood: The late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan showed the world his musical talent and put Pakistan onto the international map. He has also inspired a generation of artists, including us. Chahat: Audiences interacting with me during my performance and clapping along is so inspiring. I feed off their energy and feel motivated to give my best.
Who is your qawwali hero?
Mahmood: The late Ustad Farrukh Fateh Ali Khan for inspiring me. I learned so much from him. Chahat: My qawwali hero is Ustad Rahat Fateh Ali Khan, as he worked hard to create a name for himself. My father worked with Rahat for 11 years, so I have grown up admiring him since I was a young child.
Could you tell us the future plans for your group?
Chahat: We have signed with UK-based sayarts.com for the next 10 years. We want to take our music to the world from the UK. Like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, we would like to collaborate with western artists, showcase our talent at international music festivals, as well as record
film music.
How does it feel like partnering up with leading British promoter Abid Iqbal?
Mahmood: I made my UK debut through sayarts.com with Rahat Fateh Ali Khan’s first UK tour in 2003. My son Chahat was a few months old then. I have stuck with Abid for over 20 years now, working with different Pakistani qawwali teams touring the UK. He has rewarded that loyalty by introducing my son Chahat. He has worked hard for the revival of qawwali music and always promoted new talent and given them the platform to break through.
Why should we all come and see you perform live?
Mahmood: Chahat Mahmood Ali is dedicated to developing new audiences in the UK and globally with a youthful voice of qawwali.
Why do you love music?
Mahmood: It’s food for our souls. Music has no language and connects the world. It enables us to gift great memories, travel the world and keep a centuries old tradition alive.
Chahat: Music is in my blood, and in my family. It is an important part of my heritage, history, and future.
WHEN Rishi Sunak became an MP, he swore his oath on a copy of the Bhagvad Gita, but few people – including perhaps Britain’s first Asian prime minister – will have been aware of the efforts of a Shropshire-born civil servant in that little moment of history.
Charles Wilkins (1749-1836) was an employee of the East India Company and an avid Sanskrit lover. He arrived in India and went on to study the language under scholars in then Benares (now Varanasi, which India’s prime minister Narendra Modi represents) and produced what is believed to be the first English translation of the holy Hindu text.
It made the Gita accessible not only to the British, but also millions of Indians, including Mahatma Gandhi, and years later, Sunak.
This is just one of the anecdotes Manu Pillai uncovers in his new book, Gods, Guns and Missionaries: The Making of the Modern Hindu Identity, published earlier this year.
Pillai traces the transformation of the religion over the past four centuries – from the arrival of early Europeans in the Indian subcontinent to British rulers and the rise of Indian leaders during the freedom movement – and examines the impact of those influences.
Manu Pillai
“Most of us look at Hindu identity today through the prism of Hindu-Muslim relations, because in the present, that is what became,” Pillai told Eastern Eye. “But to me, it seemed like a lot of modern Hinduism was actually influenced by colonialism and Christianity.”
Not so much in the way that missionaries converted millions of people, Pillai explained, as they “never had physical success in terms of numbers”, but “they had a lot of intellectual success in terms of placing these moulds and frameworks of thinking, which we took in order to articulate a modern avatar for Hinduism. So, I thought that story deserved to be told.”
This is his fifth book, which Pillai began in 2019, following a dissertation on Hindu nationalism at King’s College London. At the outset, he clarified the book is not about his academic thesis, rather it examines the impact of the early Portuguese, the Italians and other Europeans, then the East India Company, the British and finally, Indian reformers and politicians prior to and after independence.
Pillai said, “Hinduism is not a Western-style religion. It’s a cultural framework in which there’s multiple diversities. Think of it like a draw cabinet; it is the overall frame that is Hinduism. But each door has its own individual identity, as well.”
And , the cover of his new book
Pillai charts the influence of hardline Portuguese missionaries whose influence is evident in Goa even today, while in the south, an Italian priest, Roberto de Nobili, adopted the local Hindu ways in order to spread the teachings of Christianity.
The book also shows how British colonial rulers were initially reluctant to the push from missionaries in the UK to proselytise communities in the subcontinent, before eventually changing their minds. Reformers such as Serfoji and Raja Ram Mohan Roy adopted a more modern approach, followed by Dayananda Saraswati, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Jotiba Phule and Veer Savarkar, whose interpretation of Hinduism came at a time of India’s freedom struggle.
This intertwining of religion and politics is not new, though, Pillai said. History has shown how rulers patronised places of worship and this continues in contemporary times, too.
The writer described how Jawaharlal Nehru (independent India’s first prime minister) and “the Nehruvian elites made a conscious effort to keep religion out, but bubbling just beneath that first level, (but) religion was always present in politics. Caste was always present in politics.”
Pillai said, “It was Nehru’s charisma and electoral success that allowed him to keep it at bay or in check. But it was never absent. By Indira Gandhi’s time, she started playing the religious card as needed, whenever she felt her party could benefit from it.”
He added, “The difference is religion has now come much more centrestage and openly acknowledged.”
Pillai also noted how economic clout and technology have both played a part in the recent assertion of religious identity, the most obvious is the patronage of places of worship, while carrying out rituals under the guidance of a priest over a video link is now the norm.
In the book, he writes about how the spread of the English language in the subcontinent meant exposure to new ideas, thus empowering Indians to not only challenge authority, but also learn about the world outside their country.
“The British employ Indians who can speak English. They pay those Indians. Those Indians are getting cash revenue. They are no longer dependent just on their farms (to earn their living). They use that to patronise their community. They build temples,” Pillai said.
“So, ironically, the wealth created by service in the British East India Company ends up in the flowering of Hinduism. The railways, which the British laid to move their troops around, also enables pilgrim traffic to temples. “All of these things come together – technology, politics and economics.”
More recently, Pillai said Hindu resurgence “isn’t purely due to political dynamics”. His view is that with rising disposable income, “you have time to think about identity, and now you have money to patronise things.”
He cites the example of Kerala, where he is from, explain how remittances from the Gulf countries led to a boom in old family temples being renovated. “There is something culturally coded in organising a big puja, or making donations to a temple is seen as an a c h i e v e m e n t , weighing yourself in grain and donating to a temple.
“So that kind of religious identity also boomed with economic boom. It’s not as an economic boom creates some rational paradise. On the contrary, an economic boom can actually result in a greater flowering of religiosity.
“Partly because of that, post liberalisation (of India in the 1990s), there’s been a new middle class that’s emerged, there’s also now disposable income. People have the wherewithal to now think beyond roti, kapda, makaan (food, clothes and shelter), and to think about who are we as a people? And the answer to that question lies in religion, culture, heritage.”
India and south Asia’s vast diversity dictate the way Hinduism is practised, across not just the subcontinent, but also across the world, where the diaspora communities are settled. Consequently, this shapes the evolution of Hindu identity.
Pillai said the next challenge for Hinduism will be maintaining that inner diversity, “because we live in times where there’s so much emphasis on that homogenised identity, on one reading of that label, of what it means to be a Hindu.
“It takes away from how much pluralism there is within the faith itself. The richness of Indian culture, in general, has been the fact that all religions that have entered India have become pluralized, even if it’s Islam.
“Islam in Kerala is not the same as Islam in Bhopal. When the north Indian Muslims under the Muslim League, as I mention in the book, went to Kashmir in the 1940s hoping to woo the Kashmiri Muslims, they were horrified. They thought that Kashmiris, with their saint worship, and all of that were not even proper Muslims. They said, ‘we’ll have to teach them Islam first, before making them Muslims, because they couldn’t recognise that version of Islam. “Everything in India is hybridised, and in many ways, that has been our strength, these hybrid identities have continued over so many generations. “What would be a major challenge is this tendency towards homogenising… towards feeling there has to be only one version of Hinduism and one interpretation of things.
“Even our epics have so many retellings. In Kerala there is an oral kind of Ramayana, in which Shurpanakha, when she propositions Rama and says, ‘I want to marry you’. And he says, ‘No, I’m already married. You go to Lakshmana.’ Shurpanakha turns around and says, ‘That’s okay; the Sharia says you can marry twice, more than one woman.
“So this is a Ramayana in which Shurpanakha quotes the Sharia, because it’s a Muslim Ramayana.
“That is the kind of country we come from. And I think losing that, where everything has become standardised, and that’s a global phenomenon, something we’re seeing around the world. That is a tragedy. That would be the bigger challenge.
“We need more people telling these stories about our inner plural, pluralism and diversity – which is not to devalue that framework. The framework has its own value. I’m not saying that Hinduism should somehow be only about its pluralism, but at the same time, it has to be a fine balance between maintaining that inner richness, maintaining all the threads in the tapestry without painting the whole tapestry one single shade.”
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